Well, I guess it was only a matter of time.
Some of you might have heard about John Holzmann and Sonlight Curriculum for Homeschoolers based out of Colorado. John is a friend of mine who, a couple of years ago, expressed interest in Beyond Creation Science. (You can see his comments here.)
John is the inquisitive type who is always investigating various viewpoints. That shows in how Sonlight Curriculum is formulated. They tend to offer books with contrasting (and sometimes contradictory) views. The goal is to expose the home school student to different points of view so they can develop critical thinking skills. In a nutshell, Sonlight Curriculum is after real education -- which is probably why they are so popular with home schoolers.
Except this has now caused a problem for John in Colorado.
The Colorado homeschool association (CHEC) decided that Sonlight would no longer be allowed a booth at the annual Homeschool Convention in Colorado that is hosted by CHEC. Why not? Because Sonlight Curriculum includes material written from an old-earth creationist/Intelligent Design perspective. (GASP!!)
Apparently, this makes Sonlight Curriculum "not Christian enough" to participate in the Homeschool Convention since CHEC requires a strict 6 Day/Young-Earth statement of faith for all its vendors. Of course, Sonlight has been displaying their material at this annual convention for years. They make no official stand on the YEC-OEC debate as an organization. They include YEC material along with OEC material in their curriculum. None of this matters now. Somebody just decided they don't meet up to the standard required by CHEC.
Hmm....
I suspect that some of John's recent articles on the subject might have something to do with Sonlight getting the ax. The irony, though, is that there appears to be a backlash against CHEC from loyal Sonlight supporters. Gotta love those home schoolers! It appears that some of them think that loving God with all their mind means actually learning about opposing views whether they agree with those views or not. I am also willing to bet that the OEC home schooling contingent will be getting larger in the future rather than smaller. Sonlight Curriculum is sure positioned to serve this niche within the home school community! Looks like free advertising to me, courtesy of the nanny CHEC! (Who needs state control of education when you can have have your state Christian home school association filter vendors at the convention for you! Ironic, no?)
Now we get to wait on an official response from CHEC regarding the situation. This one will be fun to watch. I don't know if CHEC realized this, but they just put the subject of old-earth creationism front and center for a lot of new people who probably had no interest in it before.
You can read John's account of the details here.
Tim Martin
www.BeyondCreationScience.com
THE PAROWAN PROPHET: WE'RE DEAD.
Leland Freeman is a PROPHET, according to no less authority than himself. He is known as the Parowan Prophet (Parowan, Utah). He said God speaks to him and he is the true prophet of God. According to him Obama will not be the next President of the U.S. because Russia will drop nuclear bombs all over the U.S. Millions of us will die. It will happen on December 21, 2008. Of course I am sure it is no problem for "The Prophet" of Parowan that today is January 19, 2009 and there has been no reports of a nuclear attack by anybody (much less the Russians). Maybe we're all dead and just don't know it - we must be living in a "Matrix" kind of reality.
If you have tickets for tomorrows inaugeration you better sell them on ebay tonight, but what good will money do you when you're dead, or very sick from nuclear fall-0ut.
I could never be deceived by a "PROPHET" - why, because I know there are no "Prophets" of God since August 70 a.d. when all prophecies ceased. If you do not believe in the "full preterist" view you could be deceived, oh yes you can. A billion people have been deceived into believing that Mohammad was the last Prophet of God. The Jehovah's Witnesses have been deceived by False Prophets. The Seventh-Day-Adventists have been deceived over and over again by false prophets. Cults exists because of False Prophets. Don't be deceived - THE LAST DAYS ended by 70 a.d.
If you have tickets for tomorrows inaugeration you better sell them on ebay tonight, but what good will money do you when you're dead, or very sick from nuclear fall-0ut.
I could never be deceived by a "PROPHET" - why, because I know there are no "Prophets" of God since August 70 a.d. when all prophecies ceased. If you do not believe in the "full preterist" view you could be deceived, oh yes you can. A billion people have been deceived into believing that Mohammad was the last Prophet of God. The Jehovah's Witnesses have been deceived by False Prophets. The Seventh-Day-Adventists have been deceived over and over again by false prophets. Cults exists because of False Prophets. Don't be deceived - THE LAST DAYS ended by 70 a.d.
The War is Over
By Jeromy Johnson,
The War is Over.
That is what the leaflets dropped over the Philippines by the U.S. after WWII read. The War is Over. In other words, we, as the United States of America, were saying: We are no longer trying to kill you. As far as we are concerned, you are no longer our enemy.
But there were some who heard and read this good news and did not believe it. They thought these leaflets were lies and propaganda from the enemy. These people were known as “holdouts.” They hid in the Philippines believing that the U.S. and her allies were still fighting against them. They believed they were still at war with an enemy that, in truth, had declared peace on December 31, 1946.
One of these Japanese Solider Holdouts was named Onoda. He was the lone survivor of a group of four other holdouts. In fact, 14 years after the war ended he was (incorrectly) declared legally dead in Japan. But in 1974 he realized, through a series of circumstances, that the war was over:
“On March 9, 1974, intelligence Officer 2nd Lt. Hiroo Onoda emerged from the jungle of Lubang Island with his .25 caliber rifle, 500 rounds of ammunition and several hand grenades. He surrendered 29 years after Japan’s formal surrender. When he accepted that the war was over, he wept openly.” (read more)
Did you catch that? After he accepted — or believed — that the war was over, he wept openly.
The War is Over.
That is what the leaflets dropped over the Philippines by the U.S. after WWII read. The War is Over. In other words, we, as the United States of America, were saying: We are no longer trying to kill you. As far as we are concerned, you are no longer our enemy.
But there were some who heard and read this good news and did not believe it. They thought these leaflets were lies and propaganda from the enemy. These people were known as “holdouts.” They hid in the Philippines believing that the U.S. and her allies were still fighting against them. They believed they were still at war with an enemy that, in truth, had declared peace on December 31, 1946.
One of these Japanese Solider Holdouts was named Onoda. He was the lone survivor of a group of four other holdouts. In fact, 14 years after the war ended he was (incorrectly) declared legally dead in Japan. But in 1974 he realized, through a series of circumstances, that the war was over:
“On March 9, 1974, intelligence Officer 2nd Lt. Hiroo Onoda emerged from the jungle of Lubang Island with his .25 caliber rifle, 500 rounds of ammunition and several hand grenades. He surrendered 29 years after Japan’s formal surrender. When he accepted that the war was over, he wept openly.” (read more)
Did you catch that? After he accepted — or believed — that the war was over, he wept openly.
The statement to Onoda was not, “The war is over IF you believe it.” The statement was, “The war is over, DO you believe it?” The war was over. Period.
But for 29 years he continued to hide and clutch his weapons and ration his ammo and clean his grenades. His belief that the war was still going on caused him to act accordingly.
A lot of us do the same thing. (read more here)
Lot's Passover and Promised Land
Hey guys,
I have a question.
In a recent sermon from the book of Jude, I had to go back and read Genesis 19. What surprised me is that it seems to me that what is going on is a sort of proto-Passover. Two angels go into Sodom and tell Lot that he needs to leave town -- fast. The details take place at night, just like Israel's Passover. Angels are involved. The wicked who tormented the righteous (2 Pet. 2:8) were destroyed. But the key that tipped me off to the parallels is Gen. 19:3:
"He prepared a meal for them, baking bread without yeast, and they ate."
Am I off-base to suggest a Passover theme here?
Of course, then the next question is where does Lot and his family go? Well, Lot is the father of the Ammonites and the Moabites. We find out later in Deut. 2:9, 16-19 that Lot had a promised land that God told Israel to respect.
Have any of you thought about this? Have you ever heard of anyone teach on the "promised land of Lot"? We tend to think of the promised land as something unique to Israel. However, it appears that some Gentiles? in the Old Testament also had a land possession. Please correct me if you think I am wrong.
Now getting really wild, I wonder if this might match up with covenant creation. In the old creation there is both land and sea. This is modeled in the temple architecture with the holy of holies representing heaven, the inner courts land, and the outer courts sea.
Think visually of what we have after Joshua's conquest in the land. Israel is in the center of the Jordan valley with the tabernacle/temple. The Edomites are up in the hill country of Seir (Deut. 2:2-6) on one edge with their land possession. The Moabites and Ammonites are on the wilderness edge with their land possession.
Looks to me like a living representation of tabernacle/temple architecture. Israel, land, close to God's heart serving in the inner courts. Gentiles, sea, living around the outside of the worship of God, at a distance.
Am I totally nuts?
Tim Martin
co-author, Beyond Creation Science
www.beyondcreationscience.com
I have a question.
In a recent sermon from the book of Jude, I had to go back and read Genesis 19. What surprised me is that it seems to me that what is going on is a sort of proto-Passover. Two angels go into Sodom and tell Lot that he needs to leave town -- fast. The details take place at night, just like Israel's Passover. Angels are involved. The wicked who tormented the righteous (2 Pet. 2:8) were destroyed. But the key that tipped me off to the parallels is Gen. 19:3:
"He prepared a meal for them, baking bread without yeast, and they ate."
Am I off-base to suggest a Passover theme here?
Of course, then the next question is where does Lot and his family go? Well, Lot is the father of the Ammonites and the Moabites. We find out later in Deut. 2:9, 16-19 that Lot had a promised land that God told Israel to respect.
Have any of you thought about this? Have you ever heard of anyone teach on the "promised land of Lot"? We tend to think of the promised land as something unique to Israel. However, it appears that some Gentiles? in the Old Testament also had a land possession. Please correct me if you think I am wrong.
Now getting really wild, I wonder if this might match up with covenant creation. In the old creation there is both land and sea. This is modeled in the temple architecture with the holy of holies representing heaven, the inner courts land, and the outer courts sea.
Think visually of what we have after Joshua's conquest in the land. Israel is in the center of the Jordan valley with the tabernacle/temple. The Edomites are up in the hill country of Seir (Deut. 2:2-6) on one edge with their land possession. The Moabites and Ammonites are on the wilderness edge with their land possession.
Looks to me like a living representation of tabernacle/temple architecture. Israel, land, close to God's heart serving in the inner courts. Gentiles, sea, living around the outside of the worship of God, at a distance.
Am I totally nuts?
Tim Martin
co-author, Beyond Creation Science
www.beyondcreationscience.com
Election Sermon and "Of Kings and Covenants" Conference
Don't forget about the conference this weekend!
Shaping up to be a pretty interesting event:
Election Sermon and "Of Kings and Covenants" Conference
Tim Martin
www.beyondcreationscience.com
Shaping up to be a pretty interesting event:
Election Sermon and "Of Kings and Covenants" Conference
Tim Martin
www.beyondcreationscience.com
CAN A PRETERIST BE SAVED & STILL BE DENIED CHURCH MEMBERSHIP?
"With many other words he warned them; and he pleaded with them, 'Save yourselves from this corrupt generation.' Those who accepted his message were baptized, and about three thousand were added to their number that day. They devoted themselves to the apostles' teaching and to the fellowship, to the breaking of bread and to prayer. Everyone was filled with awe, and many wonders and miraculous signs were done by the apostles. All the believers were together and had everything in common. Selling their posessions and goods, they gave to anyone as he had need. Every day they continued to meet together in the temple courts. They broke bread in their homes and ate together with glad and sincere hearts, praising God and enjoying the favor of all the people. And THE LORD ADDED TO THEIR NUMBER DAILY THOSE WHO WERE BEING SAVED." (Acts 2:40-47)
I want to begin what could become a very long discussion with the question titled above. This question comes about with the problem many preterists run into - they may be denied fellowship in a congregation even though they are Christians - they may even be excommunicated. We can ask the following questions:
1) What is necessary to be saved?
2) What is necessary to be a member of a congregation?
3) What could you do to lose your salvation?
4) What could you be excommunicated for?
5) Do you have to believe the Bible is the inspired Word of God?
a) Which version of the Bible?
- KJV only? Septuigent or Masoretic O.T.?
b) Every word taken literal or figurative?
6) Must you believe in a literal 6 day creation and a literal Adam & Eve?
7) Must you believe in a universal flood?
8) Must you follow the ten commandments & The Law?
9) Must you believe in the Virgin Birth?
10) That Jesus Christ is the Messiah? Priestly & Kingly?
11) Must you believe Jesus Christ died on the cross and was resurrected physically the third day?
12) Must you believe and embrace one of the Church creeds?
13) Must you believe in present day tongues, supernatural miracles & present day prophecy?
14) Must you be a member of the "Body of Christ" and the local Church? Which Church?
15) Are there things you must believe and follow to be a member of your congregation, but are not required to be saved?
16) Who can take the Lord's supper? Can a person who is saved be denied participation in the Lord's supper.
18) Must you follow certain rules of worship? Instrumental or non-instrumental congregational singing?
19) Must you be "Born Again" & how?
20) Must you believe Jesus Christ is coming soon?
21) Must you believe in a literal Millenial Reign of Christ?
22) Must you believe in the rapture?
I could go on with this list for a very long time (what is a long time?). I bring these questions up for the following reasons:
1) When I ask people to study eschatology and in particular preterism I am often told they need not study the subject because it really isn't important.
2) My person experience with congregations:
a) As a teenager I was a member of the Evangelical Free Church in Englewood, Florida which said you are saved by "faith only" but had strict rules of membership in the congregation such as you could not drink alcohol; dance; play cards; go to movies etc. etc. etc. One Sunday a man came forward and asked to be baptized. He was told he must be voted on by the congregation for worthiness to be a member of the Church (because baptism was a requirement to be a member of the congregation - though not to be a Christian). They voted he could not be baptized and be a member of the congregation because he played a piano in a restaurant that also served wine. The man stopped attending the congregation and was later found dead in a pond. I left the congregation.
b) My mother was excommunicated from the Lutheran Church when she married my father and began attending Church with him that was not a Lutheran Church (Missouri Synod).
c) I knew a woman who was told not to come back to an American Lutheran Church because she did not have fancy clothing.
d) I know a man who was questioned by the Belgrade Church of Christ as to his belief about musical instruments in worship and because he saw nothing wrong with that and other things he was asked not to attend.
The list can go on and on. So, can you be saved (be a Christian) and not be allowed to be a member, or fellowship, with a congregation?
I want to begin what could become a very long discussion with the question titled above. This question comes about with the problem many preterists run into - they may be denied fellowship in a congregation even though they are Christians - they may even be excommunicated. We can ask the following questions:
1) What is necessary to be saved?
2) What is necessary to be a member of a congregation?
3) What could you do to lose your salvation?
4) What could you be excommunicated for?
5) Do you have to believe the Bible is the inspired Word of God?
a) Which version of the Bible?
- KJV only? Septuigent or Masoretic O.T.?
b) Every word taken literal or figurative?
6) Must you believe in a literal 6 day creation and a literal Adam & Eve?
7) Must you believe in a universal flood?
8) Must you follow the ten commandments & The Law?
9) Must you believe in the Virgin Birth?
10) That Jesus Christ is the Messiah? Priestly & Kingly?
11) Must you believe Jesus Christ died on the cross and was resurrected physically the third day?
12) Must you believe and embrace one of the Church creeds?
13) Must you believe in present day tongues, supernatural miracles & present day prophecy?
14) Must you be a member of the "Body of Christ" and the local Church? Which Church?
15) Are there things you must believe and follow to be a member of your congregation, but are not required to be saved?
16) Who can take the Lord's supper? Can a person who is saved be denied participation in the Lord's supper.
18) Must you follow certain rules of worship? Instrumental or non-instrumental congregational singing?
19) Must you be "Born Again" & how?
20) Must you believe Jesus Christ is coming soon?
21) Must you believe in a literal Millenial Reign of Christ?
22) Must you believe in the rapture?
I could go on with this list for a very long time (what is a long time?). I bring these questions up for the following reasons:
1) When I ask people to study eschatology and in particular preterism I am often told they need not study the subject because it really isn't important.
2) My person experience with congregations:
a) As a teenager I was a member of the Evangelical Free Church in Englewood, Florida which said you are saved by "faith only" but had strict rules of membership in the congregation such as you could not drink alcohol; dance; play cards; go to movies etc. etc. etc. One Sunday a man came forward and asked to be baptized. He was told he must be voted on by the congregation for worthiness to be a member of the Church (because baptism was a requirement to be a member of the congregation - though not to be a Christian). They voted he could not be baptized and be a member of the congregation because he played a piano in a restaurant that also served wine. The man stopped attending the congregation and was later found dead in a pond. I left the congregation.
b) My mother was excommunicated from the Lutheran Church when she married my father and began attending Church with him that was not a Lutheran Church (Missouri Synod).
c) I knew a woman who was told not to come back to an American Lutheran Church because she did not have fancy clothing.
d) I know a man who was questioned by the Belgrade Church of Christ as to his belief about musical instruments in worship and because he saw nothing wrong with that and other things he was asked not to attend.
The list can go on and on. So, can you be saved (be a Christian) and not be allowed to be a member, or fellowship, with a congregation?
